Is it being “destructive” to publish a litany of the gaffes that have come to collectively characterise the administration of President Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino III? Some people dismiss such an exercise as “nitpicking” and exhort the “offending” parties to take a more “positive” perspective, while others preach the virtues of dismissing these call-outs as nothing more than noise dished out by “hecklers” and “thugs”.
The alternatives offered to calling out the truth about these gaffes and triumphs of flawed thinking is to simply overlook them and continue to latch on to the illusion of “hope” and “change” that formed the core pitch of the Aquino campaign of 2010.
Induced delusion.
Induced delusion is what the Aquino campaign has morphed into and is the active ingredient in the “positive thinking” mantra that Administration and party publicists are now pitching to Filipinos. We are in the midst of a massive mass communications campaign to distract from and even whitewash the reality of how Noynoy Aquino has so far bumbled his way across the first month on the job — a month characterised by much creation of division and much erosion of cohesion. It is an executive comedy of errors of the sort not seen since the honeymoon period of former President Joseph “Erap” Estrada in 1998.
That these presidential gaffes are so amusing belies how potentially damaging (if they had not already resulted in such) many of these are — Noynoy’s imbroglio with Chief Justice Renator Corona potentially undermining the independence of the judiciary, his commuting approach that unnecessarily endangers himself, his security personnel, and innocent civilians that surround his motorcade, his second-guessing courts that have jurisdiction over rebel leader Antonio Trillanes’s case thereby further contributing to the sharpening of rebellion as a political tool of choice, and his coming so close to creating a diplomatic row with the Japanese who he presumed to lecture on long-term thinking (thankfully the Japanese have far healthier egos than the average Pinoy male).
We are encouraged to cut the President some “slack” and remember that it has “only” been several weeks. But that begs dusturbing questions around the heights to which expectations among the electorate were made to soar by an astutely-engineered campaign that was electrified by nostalgic, emotional, and nationalistic diarrhoea delivered by the best entertainers and spin technicians that Kamaganak Inc money could buy.
Ladies and gentlement, this is your President.
Lesser minds encourage us to be positive about the next six years. I beg to differ. We’d best defer to the bigger minds who encourage us to be constructive.
There is a big difference between being “positive” and being constructive. The earlier is a mere mind trick that inclines one to gloss over faults and continue to latch on to often dwindling prospects (ironically eroded by the same faults that are purposely ignored in the process of latching on to them). Positive thinking is at the core of a billion dollar industry that cons weak-minded people into thinking that they could make things happen simply by willing it. Not much science behind that one, folks. In contrast, the latter — being constructive — is a discipline underpinned by a structured, critical, and realistic take on things.
In short, when asked to have a bit of “hope” or take on a bit of a more “positive” perspective, we should make it a habit to ask of those who presume to tell us how we should feel about what is real the following question:
Hope in what exactly?
Hope is ok as long as it can be substantiated by the disciplines that underlie what it really means to be constructive.
Let’s forget being positive and focus on being constructive. And to be truly constructive, we need to make sure that weaknesses in the foundations of what it is we aspire to construct be identified and highlighted, so that we can break out of the cycle of having to keep telling everyone I told you so and earn ourselves the right to tell ourselves, That’s the way!
Get Real Philippines 
How do u define being constructive? you say its underpinned by X, Y and Z (as if being positive isnt as well!)… but you HAVENT DEFINED IT.
what is “being constructive”?
@GabbyD
Being constructive is when emotions are unimportant that one can see beyond what is faulty and what is faultless.
The definition alone does not suffice the word. It requires WISDOM!
” beyond what is faulty and what is faultless.” what does this mean? perhaps u can use a concrete example, para klaro.
@GabbyD
Can you please give me a sign that you have wisdom? Then I will give you an example.
@mel
over the internet?
perhaps the best sign of my wisdom is the understanding that it is impossible for me to say anything, and have u perceive it as wisdom — UNLESS I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING U SAY.
i reject that kind of wisdom. i prefer discussion and learning from each other.
i tried to ask u sincerely for an example. i’m done. with that.
@GabbyD
First. I do not expect you to agree with everything I say.
I reject discussion and learning from each other without wisdom.
I sincerely asked for a sign. I am done. With that!
See, am learning from you 😉
Being constructive is drawing someone’s attention to his mistake, telling him what he did wrong and why so that he can correct himself and avoid doing the same mistakes.
It is really simple.
example:
being positive: telling someone he smells good when in fact he has a disgusting body odor.
being constructive: telling someone with body odor that he smells.
“being positive: telling someone he smells good when in fact he has a disgusting body odor.”
isnt that lying? thats not being positive.
i guess this is a definitional game, so i suppose u can DEFINE being positive as lying if u want.
Yes, you got it for once! It is positive when you tell someone he smells good even if he does not, right? And yet it is lying, right! That’s Benign0’s message in his article… being positive towards our Prez, saying “he’s doing fine,” is lying.
And, “cutting him some slack” is a fallacy of lowered standards. It’s partiality… the previous presidents weren’t treated like this. Why cut some slack only on Aquino?
i guess u can finesse b0’s message anyway u want. u can define being positive as “lying” if u want.
there is an obvious difference between the body odor VS “ur doing fine”.
the latter being a subjective political judgement. hence, to say that one is “lying” when one has a difference of opinion is called NOT CONSTRUCTIVE.
Oh, sometimes you have to lie (maybe a white kind of lie) to be positive. I am positive that the country will be able to get out of the mess it is in but I am pessimistic that it happens within my lifetime. We just keep on recycling the same politicians ad nauseam. Politically immature people.
The ball now on your park. What does “being positive” mean to you?
lying and being positive are not mutually exclusive.
being positive could be lying (as in being in-denial to avoid emotional discomfort, guilt or internal personal turmoil) (or as in avoiding disharmony with or in others), but lying isn’t always being positive. depends on why the lie was told.
subjective political judgement? the gaffes were obvious. you’re lying to yourself, gabbyd. you’re just being positive, but definitely not constructive.
when it’s really just a difference in opinion, lying is not constructive, true. but when you’re in denial of the obvious, the painful truth you make excuses for, you’re lying to yourself, and others too, because you want them to ignore the obvious and proven so as to replace their reality with your own.
this isn’t your opinion that noy didn’t bumble versus our opinion that noy did bumble a lot.
this is your opinion that noy didn’t bumble versus FACT that noy did bumble a lot.
there’s a difference between fact and opinion, gabbyd. duhhhh. 😮
yeah, you are doing fine with your body odor. stinky as usual, what else is new 8)
Anyone who didn’t catch the implied definition of constructive here needs to get their brains jumpstarted using a truck battery.
ok. fine. i need my brains jumpstarted.
HAPPY?
sige na, i’ll be anything u want so we can move beyond this STUPID NAMECALLING, so we can have an actual discussion, so u can stop wasting time.
ok. what IS the implied definition of constructive. more importantly, EXPLAIN HOW ITS IMPLIED in the blogarticle.
NFA Rice has it, but I’ll modify it a bit:
Being positive: telling someone he smells good when in fact he has a disgusting body odor.
Being constructive: telling someone with body odor that he has it (discreetly of course), and telling him to use deodorant.
That enough of a jumpstart? 😉
this has got to be the funniest thing i’ve read all week! thanks chinof!
great points up there too!
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Holy crap looks like the excuses finally caught up with you eh? I’ll tell you something positive. Keep up what you’re doing because you represent something important to us here in AP, a kind of voice that always gives us an opposing perspective to the articles.
Now something constructive. I find your tenacity to defend your points inspiring. But I recommend that you back it up further with a strong logical base and attack the main idea, as oppose to creating an offshoot to then doing what you always do. At least with a strong logical point as a foundation, you can then attempt to use it and find flaws in the other argument you can work with. Oh and don’t use emoticons unless needed, otherwise you end up looking more idiotic like a certain somebody who uses a similar style of argument like yours but throws logic completely out of the window in favor of the individuals heavy emotions and instinct.
wow! this article reminds me of the secret by rhonda byrne. never read the book, but witnessed how friends lost a lot by becoming delusional. they have forgotten and/or avoided how to deal with the real source of their problems that after some time, when they never received what they were positively wishing for, they became angry and depressed. some lost a lot of money and time too for investing on a hope that they will get what they want as long as they stay positive.
yellow cult’s bible: noynoy’s the secret…
check you reading comprehension or you can go back to your reading 100 para makatulog.. now na! 😡
thank you for your suggestion, baby crab. the more you make nasty comments, the more your credibility subsides. using the anonymity of the internet to vent up your frustration of your miserable life ha? keep it up! 🙂
ano ang koneksyon ng buhay ko sa usapan? 😥
@crab
ano koneksiyon ng tulog sa usapan ❓
ohh gash pighead ka talaga lily 😀 i said ….reading 101… ” ” …. makatulong…”. got it na ba ❓ puting kasi itong makenilya ko wala ning mga letra. 😆
again 😆 ” putik kasi itong makenilya ko wala ning mga letra. 😆
Lols. For someone who keeps on waving “READING 101” around like some sort of placard, he attributes the comment to an entirely different person.
Reading all details help you know!
ganun naman talaga dito sa AP diba. ta mke it sound credible ibablog ni benigO tapos iaaffirm ni jay 😀 . magbablog si ilda iaaffirm ni meriamq 😀 . magbablog si bongv babanat si ChinoF 😀 . babanat si mel alleluia amen namn si lilly 😆
At ikaw, banat ka rin sa mga comments nila. 😀
Sige, para di ka mainggit sasagutin ko rin mga comments mo, okies? Para di ka na sad. Aww.
i said benigO=jay, ilda=meriamq, bongv-ka-line-in-ChinoF, mel-yowa-lilly 😆
You’re still fixated on how people comment on each other’s posts.
Have a hug. \o/ See? I’ma comment on your comments too, so don’t feel so lonely! But not if I’m sleeping or doing my work or if I can’t be bothered to pander to someone like you.
@crab
Good observer! 🙂 “Aminin mo na, iba talaga ang kasayahan dito” 😀
but wait, constructive is promoting improvement and you cannot create a kinda constructive analysis while all blog authors here in AP are all HYPOCRITE! 😡 isama mo na si ilda 8) , bongv 8) , binegO 8) et al… they always look on “butas pont” 😯 , negativism 😯 , demolition 😯 and now you said constructive! 😈 my gad benigO are you insane ❓
@crab
The truth hurts! Those are facts. It all happened under PNoy’s term. Your stomach cannot digest the truth that your President is incompetent.
Worst, we are all paying the price and you cannot understand why! 😥
Mel, you don’t bother explaining things to someone who serves as the village idiot.
Seryoso ba ‘to? 😆
Oops, I was referring to crab.
😆 i thought you’re referring to lily and mel. 😀
Most Filipinos are insecure and persist in illusion because they fear what is true and thus ignore it for the sake of saving face. Filipinos constantly extol what is essentially empty, such as superior family values, when in fact adultery is common-place and even overlooked or rationalized by filipinos. People in the Philippines are hedonistic and only care about entertainment, and it’s not surprising at all that conditions there are only getting worse.
The ones who are worthy of being saved will save themselves. May the gap widen between the enlightened building a meaningful future and the ignorant digging their living graves.
@crab, identify the problem first so you can see if your solution is relevant. flashing Laban sign doesn’t make corruption go away you know – it also does not bring food on the table
on gad bongv thats PNoy’s line… idol mo rin pala si PNoy pakipot ka pa 🙄
@crab – that was AP’s line – kinopya ni noynoy 😆 he didn’t have one before – nothing but a third rate trying hard copycat 😆
@crab – ang solusyon pinagpipilian tuwing eleksyon – hindi after the election – palibhasa.. AMATEUR 😆
wait on sona maririnig mo ang lahat ng problima ng pinas na lalatagan ng karampatang solusyon pero hihingi parin saiyo ng tulong dahil kung ikaw kayo tayo ay hindi kikiols hindi talaga tayo makakabangon. 😕 intiemdi amigo ❓
WOW hanggang SONA ka pa makikinig kung anu talaga ang gagawin ng haring lider mo! Talagang inaatupag mo na hindi gamitin ang utak mo! Ikaw talaga ang tunay na pinoy sa amin dito sa AP. Ang tipong pag iisip na ganun ay dapat lamang sa mga ibat ibang mga Pinoy sa bansa at ibang lupahin din!
… daaang
… crab, holiday ba ang prez gung gong’s sona day?
… ate glo’s sona was a holiday which lasted for a week…
… daaang
… ooopsie… pahabol…
… which devout archbisupsop tt/padre damaso will recite the invocation to start the sona thingy?
… gotta jumpstart flipland day with ama namin, ave ginoong maria, hail mary, our father, secula secolorum. santa ate cory… santa ate glo…. uhmmm hummmm uhmmm
if AP we are hypocrites – you are a PHONEY 😆
It’s good to be positive when there is a good reason to be. Noynoy really did not have a proof that he can lead the nation. Just look at his track record and compare with the alternative candidates of the past elections.
When served with rotten food, eating it while hoping my health will be well, will not do good for me.
I can list a few things what being constructive with Noynoy means:
1. Reminding him that the Executive, Legislative, and Judiciary branches of the government are co-equal and independent.
2. Reminding him to not shame the Filipinos by being tactless with their largest donor – Japan.
3. Reminding him that the Presidency is not the normal 9-5, Monday to Friday job.
4. Reminding him to finally implement CARP throughout the country, and not excempt Hacienda Luisita
5. Reminding him that he is President.
There is more to the list. But coffeebreak is over. Back to work.
1) nothing he has done challenges this
2) bawal magcriticize ng japan?
3) its not? u wont give him his sunday?
4) thats the DAR’s job. he has a DAR sec. the DAR sec seems to know what he’s doing.
5) sigh. he knows he’s president.
1.) Oh he has. Like not accepting Corona. That was plain childish, “personalan” stupidity.
2.) On Japan, he did not criticize Japan intelligently. He made a statement of laziness. Even if the leaders of Japan change, he has to keep up.
3.) A president of a country is president 24/7/365 for six years. Give him his Sunday after the six years.
4.) CARP is essential to show that he means business as president. If he doesn’t take the helm of CARP and push it on, then he’s not serious about his work.
5.) And he’s using his knowledge the wrong way. Like a teenager who was given a new hot rod car. He’s gonna crash soon.
GabbyD,
1. Oh really. Yeah he really has enough wisdom about the constitution, enough to disrespect the appointment of Justice Corona and interfere with the judicial process surrounding the case of Trillanes.
2. Nope, i’ts right when the it is informed criticism. It’s shameful to have a president delivering clueless criticism. If he wants to criticize, he should at least get it right! That way he doesn’t look like a buffoon and be a liability to the country.
3. Sure he can take vacations. He’s not superman. But weekend breaks? Does the country stop too on weekends? If an urgent request, say in case of an emergency, is filed on a friday evening, the request needs to wait until monday to be granted or denied? Maybe he has a proxy? Is rule by proxy constitutional?
4. Right! He has no responsibility over DAR!
5. I concede that point. He knows he is president, only confused. He seems unable to realize that whatever he says cannot be separated from policy. Look at the Trillanes gaffe again. He’s bumbling his way but when someone points out to him the nonsense, he retracts and says that his opinion is not official. How stupid can you get?
Gabby D: I cannot believe you don’t see the rudeness in N/A’s answer to the Japanese reporter’s question. No head of state would put another country in bad light like that in a public forum. To me, this smacks of “autism”, like the guy just lives in his own little world and whatever he says, does not have any bearing on the country’s foreign relations. If you are a head of state, it is uncalled for to rub salt on the wounds of your friend in public. He demonstrated lack of tact and not only that, he very nonchalantly broke all diplomatic protocol by rubbing it in, the Japanese prime minister would never stoop that low, even though, there are a lot of things that make it difficult for them to deal with our country, what with our direction-less policies that have not produced tangible results in strengthening our institutions. They have more tact than that, in a press conference, usually, leaders use diplomatic language in speaking about other countries they have friendly relations with. N/A was an embarrassment to the country for having breached standard protocol.
There is no excuse for such bad behavior, other than perhaps, his unstable mental state led him to behave in such a rude manner, without him even feeling any tinge of regret or guilt.
I still am confused why JoeAm hides behind the skirt of “patriotism” when he expresses his disagreement with BongV’s opinion about Noynoy. BongV has an opinion about Noynoy / JoeAm disagrees with BongV / end-of-story.
Some farmers of Hacienda Luisita (and some students of Univ Philippines Diliman) have opinions about Noynoy / JoeAm disagrees with their opinions about Noynoy’s land-reform issue // can JoeAm really say “… lack of patriotism” to the farmers/students who are loudly pro-CARP?
Mel,
So if I have a contrary view I should not express it? Or if I do, I am an implied coward for “hiding” behind patriotism?
For the 37th time, the issue is not about President Aquino. It is about respect and giving of self for the common good.
And what good are two opinions if they are simple bricks thrown at one another? Where is the process to take the best from both and find a new path?
Hey Joe Amirica:
The common good: is to remove himself from being the problem. I have already commented on the earlier Blog comment: how he became the problem, together with his political cronies. If he refuses to look at this situation. We cannot help him. Don’t divert the issue…
@joe america
“So if I have a contrary view I should not express it? Or if I do, I am an implied coward for “hiding” behind patriotism?”
You are the one who concluded that. You should express your views but you have to accept the fact that we all have different views on different matters here and you cannot generalize the AP readers having a GROUP THINK influenced only by the authors of this site. There are different personalities here with different life experiences but I can sense that almost everyone is wanting for a cultural change and critical thinking. That is the reason why I am here.
I have said it before, for now I have enough from idealism and your comments sound too idealistic for me. I need concrete solutions. Not hope. Involved in a charity work, I see and feel the sufferings of hungry and disadvantaged children. I cannot just go on giving temporary help to feed a hungry stomach for a day. There is a need to change this Filipino society, if we all want a long-term success.
you are already expressing your view – you are reading it here – losing marbles 😆
@joe:
of course you could express it. but you don’t want ap dwellers to express their views that are contrary to yours.
not necessarily. but you are a coward for saying your comments were moderated here when they never were.
the common good is best served by holding noynoy to his promises of change even if it means being a strong critic towards him. for the 37th time, respect does not mean the absence of criticism or the lack of pressure applied by the people on him to shape up. the manner in which the criticisms are given to noynoy is every individual’s democratic freedom.
i believe ap’s target readers are smart enough to tell bad ideas from good ones. so even if these ideas/opinions are bricks (a form that seems to hurt your thick skin) thrown between two arguing parties, they serve their purpose.
the readers are smart enough to figure these out from the articles and discussions. good ideas will beat bad ones, better ideas will beat good ones. if you don’t like that dynamic you’re free to create that dynamic you seek on your own blog.
gosh joe, these questions would have been perfect for nick and his waste of a blog.
Joe,
we’ve had a similar discussion about this already in your blog no less especially about your lack of justification for supporting the president than trying to be constructive about what he plans to do.
@Jay
We have similar discussion about this with Joe almost every day now. I don’t know when he is going to get it.
When you stop misrepresenting me and twisting what I say. Or when others stop going personal.
stop embarrassing joe with the facts, ilda! you’re gonna make him cry again. har har 😈
“twisting what i say” daw haha
what a frikkin’ drama queen 😆
“We are encouraged to cut the President some “slack” and remember that it has “only” been several weeks.”
Uhmmm, cutting some slack for a new guy in the job is a valid, strong proposition. That is why, you have probationary period for most positions: learn the ropes, try for size, familiarize with the surroundings, etc
And for the presidency, nobody really comes to the job well prepared. Definitely, not on Day One.
IDEAL: HIT THE GROUND RUNNING
REALITY: ON-THE-JOB TRAINING
MEDIOCRE : ON PERPETUAL HELP
We’ll know soon enough won’t we? How about in 100 days? Or in six months? 8)
There’s nothing wrong with being critical.
Look at the German national team football. The team is made up of youngsters (average age is less 25) . The German media was pretty critical of them. Instead of whining that they are not ubermenschen , they did their best, and won 3rd place. They also had the best curb stomping victories in the recent world cup.
Let’s just say the German media was eating their own words.
Based on prior KPIs – 8 bills in 3 years. helloooooo 8)
@Phil Manila,
and that is why people have such lowered expectations, especially for a VERY pivotal position such as running the country. I mean, you should be aware of the ramifications the decisions a person in that position makes right?
The problem is his mandate of support, much like yourself either have lofty or NO CONCRETE EXPECTATIONS on what he is to accomplish, considering (well I know you didn’t) his background prior to becoming president. The concept of work ethic and preparation is absent from your minds, which is sad considering those are a huge factor in how he goes upon accomplishing his goals whether it be weekly, 100 days, 6 months or his entire tenure. Any project any individual undertakes with set goals needs to be prepared for and execute correctly if they are to accomplish the goals, regardless of the means the individual went to succeed with it.
With that I totally disagree that the presidency position isn’t one where anyone isn’t prepared for it, unless there was a coup. Noy campaigned for 12 months and surely expected to win with the support of his cult and little opposition. So telling me he shouldn’t be well prepared for the position he’s vying for is utter garbage.
Uhmm, cutting some slack for a new guy in the job is a valid, strong proposition. That is why, you have probationary period for most positions: learn the ropes, try for size, familiarize with the surroundings, etc
And for the presidency, nobody really comes to the job well prepared. Definitely, not on Day One.
IDEAL: HIT THE GROUND RUNNING
REALITY: ON-THE-JOB TRAINING
MEDIOCRE : ON PERPETUAL HELP
We’ll know soon enough won’t we? How about in 100 days? Or in six months? 8)
“Uhmmm, cutting some slack for a new guy in the job is a valid, strong proposition. That is why, you have probationary period for most positions: learn the ropes, try for size, familiarize with the surroundings, etc”
You miss the point entirely. No one here is calling for the resignation of Aquino for making those gaffes. I also remind myself that it is an on-the-job program for him. I mean he did not really have enough experience in his 12 years as a senator did he?
But cutting slack is different from being silent. Interns don’t learn all by themselves. One has to point out what is right and what is wrong to them. Unable to fill up government positions given one month of preparations? Give me a break!
What is cutting slack for you?
correction: on-the-job-training
[quote]Interns don’t learn all by themselves. One has to point out what is right and what is wrong to them. Unable to fill up government positions given one month of preparations? Give me a break![/quote]
This applies especially to Noynoy’s case simply because he said it himself: Tayo ang boss nya.
Kaya dapat pagalitan ang intern kung may nagawa syang mali.
I think that’s dead wrong, Phil. Cutting some slack is like letting mistakes go… even if they’re fatal. Also, he’s not a “new guy” in the strictest sense of the word. He’s been a congressman and senator, and thus should have a good idea already of how the presidency is run. For a president, Day One matters most… because it’s likely that the Last Day of his term will turn out the same.
This is a political position. It’s sensitive. It is absolutely not on-the-job training.
“Nobody really comes to the job well prepared” indeed. But what we’re seeing is not just “not well prepared.” It’s a total bungle. That’s the problem.
Yeah. Noynoy had more than a decade to do something substantial for the country, but he comes up with squat. And in his first few days as President, not only did he not do something that’s of good use, but he BUNGLED.
I remember Gordon saying something that goes like “If Noynoy wins, it is the defeat of the Filipino people”.
I’ll have to agree. The moment Noynoy proved himself to be so utterly unprepared for what he signed up for, the Filipinos shot themselves in the foot.
I want to be positive about Noynoy. But he’s not giving me anything to be positive about.
“Very unimpressed about noyNoyaquino; Less-tolerant, very impatient” will be applicable to many blog-article writers and blogcommenters of AntiPinoy(dot)Com That is just how things are.
Democracy, to be healthy, needs 💡 dissent. AntiPinoy(dot)Com with all its abrasiveness needs to be around. Remember that a lot of money and resources is being expended to present presiNooyNOY Aquino in the best of light, his 😳 gaffes and mistakes sanitized, boTOXed, embellished and all. Just think the budget-money and manpower behind ➡ OP.Gov (dot) PH web site.
First of all, I dont think that there should some “cutting him some slack” to be done here. The president is a big enough position for someone who is WILLING to be in that position should REALIZE BEFORE HAND that HE IS QUALIFIED for the position in terms of TRACK RECORD etc..
IT IS NOT A TRIAL AND ERROR JOB FOR A WHOLE NATION IS COUNTING ON YOU! THUS YOU HAV E ADVISORS!
It is a BIG ENOUGH RESPONSIBILITY that BEFORE HE TRIED TO ASSUME THE POSITION!
SELF-EVALUATION IS NEEDED AND NOT SELF-PRAISE!
It was plain obvious that he was subdued then blinded to run for president only to respond to the pressure of the yellow moronic crowd! (HOW TYPICAL FILIPINO!)
He says hes humble? If he was then he should have been humble enough not to respond to the pressure of the people because he knows that in the first place, that he is not YET qualified!
Seems that the popular Filipino notion of “being positive” is ignoring mistakes, doing nothing to fix them and just going ahead with their business, even if those ignored mistakes are impeding the business. It’s like shooting oneself in the foot, and then hopping on one foot and saying, “I can walk! I can walk!” 😆
People need to be reminded of how to be really positive.
Personally, I’m offended that the ‘yellow submarine’ is jumping the gun and saying “give him (us) some time, he (we’re) not Superman” and then get all riled up when people speak up and point out potentially damaging mistakes both in attitude and execution.
Reasons as follows:
# 1. Stating the obvious and saying you’re no superhero is assuming we’re a bunch of idiots. Dude, we KNOW you’re not Superman. If you were, this discussion would’ve been moot because all the problems would’ve been solved by now. At least respect us enough to assume we know fantasy from reality.
# 2. Getting on the case of people who express their criticism on potentially damaging actions and policies is really no different from telling them to shut up because you know better. That goes right in the face of democracy – the very idea “their” campaign capitalized on to death. You want democracy? Then you’d better respect ALL opinions, even those that go against what you believe.
The more I think about it, to not speak out and criticize is probably what the oligarchy wants; to shut out dissenting voices so they can railroad whatever agenda they’ve got planned. So they drum up this “kawawa” image of our president helpless (hapless?) against the bullies who dare voice their opinions; rallying sympathy and support for what appears to be a lackluster leader who, so far, has demonstrated very little leadership qualities.
Free thought is core to democracy and free thought will always employ critical thinking. And what AP’s basically saying to the yellow submariners is: “Hey, shape up. We’re watching you.”
If they’ve got problems with that, THEN that’s when all of us should start worrying.
Besides, which would you rather do?
Be responsible by exercising your rights to speak your minds, encourage discussion and provoke thought?
Or not care about what’s happening just to give the nice guy a break?
Heck, what they worked on was to win, that’s all. Trying to fix the country… they were like, “Oh? Were we supposed to do that?” 😆
Not beyond the realm of possibility, Chino. 😆
Damn, I hate being right… in this case. 😳
Right there is one of the weaknesses of this “6-years no-reelection presidential term”.
If Pilipinas had 4-year-term 8-years max like in the old days, then Noynoy has to
perform or he is booted out 4 years later. And if Pinas had a parliamentary and Noynoy
is unable 8) to get the confidence of the members of parliament, then within months,
Noynoy is gone.
Now if Noynoy is as great a leader as the ➡ Yellow Army says he is, then Noynoy gets 8 years
(or even 10 or 12 years) in office.
Yes, his slothful and wasteful stint at the senate gives as more reason to be concerned and speak out!
But we’re bullying him guys! He’s done nothing to deserve the criticisms! Stop hating on Noynoy! Don’t bully the big baby!
D:
“You want democracy? Then you’d better respect ALL opinions, even those that go against what you believe.”
Exactlty. Mismo. Sapul mo!
That is why, try not to GROUP THINK in here. A little indulgence on your part on some dissenting opinion from yours truly will go a long way towards applying what is preached.
Otherwise, I might be tempted to say, ANO DAW?.
No one’s group thinking when they all come to the same conclusion on their own. I came to my conclusion on my own that Filipino culture was intrinsically defective and wrong, and I found my fellows with the same opinion in AP.
I think your “no group think” reminder is more applicable back at the old blog where we got moderated. 🙄
Wait a minute. I just realized: if democracy means “respecting opinions, even those that go against what you believe,” then you should not moderate those opinions from your blog.
Oh yeah! 😆
[quote]That is why, try not to GROUP THINK in here[/quote]
Excuse me, but I believe you’re in the wrong forum. Of course most of the posts here are going to be similar in message and beliefs, but that’s because the pool of writers here have the same goal and belief in mind. It’s the same as your average lolI’mafilipino blog or forum.
The difference in message comes in with the comments posted here. Like all the other places in the internet, antipinoy.com attracts a certain type of people, which in this case, those who are critical of the current Pinoy culture and governance, no matter who is seated.
As for your comment re: “group thinking”, that’s pretty much a crass observation. One only sees that perception whenever its someone who CANNOT explain or defend their position from what is the general consensus of this website. In easier to digest terms, only the people who cry out ARGH GROUP THINKING DO NOT WANT are those who cry because they got defeated in whatever argument they engaged in.
We don’t share one brain, as we have thought about our ideas about the government according to what we have experienced and what we have learned about. We just congregated here. If anything, its the Yellow Masses, those who voted Noynoy but can’t give any reason beyond EH NAGPROMISA SYA NA MAWAWALA ANG KORAP EH are those who group think.
Lilly,
I suppose you have to be at the wrong end of the “gang up” experience to understand what Phil is driving at. It is rather like mob rule where one bozo flings a rock and so others with nothing constructive to add fling theirs, too.
The effect is to push people away, and that creates the kind of pristine community that lacks the diversity that would help push forward. It is not the dominance of some “right” thinking over “wrong” thinking that moves a nation. It is the dynamic of different views merging with solutions.
That does not happen very much on AP. It is more the old-school Filipino mentality of intimidation and asserting dominance that my way is the only way, and any other view is an affront.
“I know that 1+1=2.”
“No you’re wrong! My opinion is that 1+1=5. Your opinion is as good as mine.”
Obviously, some opinions deserve more attention than others because they are right, and the others are wrong. Or rather, the right opinions deserve attention, the wrong opinions don’t. 😉
brilliant – Chino F
“I know that 1+1=2.”
“No you’re wrong! My opinion is that 1+1=5. Your opinion is as good as mine.”
Obviously, some opinions deserve more attention than others because they are right, and the others are wrong. Or rather, the right opinions deserve attention, the wrong opinions don’t. 😉
joe america’s adoption of the tone of a victim crying that he’s at the wrong end of what he imagines to be a “gang up” is a tired old tactic that
(1) pathetically begs for compassion towards deliberately flawed but stubborn thinking, and
(2) does not elevate his case to justify cutting noynoy a break, and
(3) does not motivate the silent readers (who might have shared his opinion at first but realized they can’t rationally defend his dumb idea either).
we are so used to your calling it mob rule, joe, and it isn’t entirely inconspicuous how you keep repeating a lie with the hope that others will take it as truth eventually if they heard it enough number of times.
constructive? you should talk! you’ve disparaged authors on ap, but you act as if you’re on the receiving end of name-calling. you are intellectually dishonest, joe america. that’s not name-calling; that’s calling a spade a spade.
really, joe? far as i can tell,
(1) ap’s readership keeps growing, and
(2) ap’s fans keep increasing, and
(3) many formerly solidly yellow are beginning to see what ap has warned them about from before the elections, and
(4) you’re still here. (tell me you’re not here and i’ll call you a pathological liar in a heartbeat)
if you call that a lack of diversity then you’re caught being INCONSISTENT again, joe america.
if the lack of more people backing you up when you whine about being “ganged up” is what you call a lack of diversity, you could always visit the yellow blogsites to find people of equally dysfunctional minds. seek reinforcements there, einstein.
the dynamic of different views merging with solutions need to be a product of a discipline underpinned by a structured, critical, and realistic take on things happening all around us. the view that noy needs to be given slack and room to make more mistakes is one completely lacking that discipline, and completely moronic. cutting noy some slack WILL NOT IMPROVE HIS PERFORMANCE, but will give him the confidence to continue performing as stupidly as he did on his first 3 weeks. what part of that do you not understand, joe?
besides, when you say there ought not to be the dominance of right thinking over wrong thinking, you’re saying all manner of thinking is right, and nobody ever has any wrong thinking. wrong again, einstein! you should have a conversation with charles manson.
god forbid a day that you get gravely injured in a car crash and you find yourself in the e.r. with the most inexperienced doctor who reluctantly says “i’m new at this, and you have to give me some latitude to make mistakes sir, but i must operate on you now.” if his view is that he’s allowed to make mistakes and shouldn’t be criticized for them, while your view (take note of the differing views, people!) is he can’t afford to make mistakes that might leave you completely paralyzed or even dead, exactly how well can you “merge” his view with yours, joe?
you disappoint, mr. america. all your pontificating on bringing different views together to achieve something constructive is all lip service, frankly divisive and alienating of the minority who actually use their heads.
yours is no intention of merging views that carry solutions, but mixing solutions (ap’s) with hindrances (yours) that stand in the way of effectiveness and efficiency. how badly you and your ideas look here really isn’t anyone else’s fault but yours alone because you are a real phoney, joe america. so go ahead, keep whining.
[quote](4) you’re still here. (tell me you’re not here and i’ll call you a pathological liar in a heartbeat)[/quote]
This. This, this this and this.
Obtuse Pro-Noys (there are some who aren’t) come here already KNOWING that this site is leaning towards critical views on Noynoy and the Filipino culture in general, but what’s happening? They still go here and let themselves get flogged all the time. BY CHOICE.
For what? For that innate purpose to prove that the overall consensus of this site is wrong and that they just have to correct it? I mean, I know that FilipinoVoices are just a bunch of rabid Ngoyngoys, but you won’t see me rampaging in there just because I think I’m right and they’re all wrong.
But if I have enough time and granted that they’re not gonna ban my ass for just having an opinion contrary to them, why not engage in a discussion with them, right? As long as I have my tough skin I can stand the heat in the kitchen. I think that’s what the Pro-ngoys should be like, too. If not, then don’t be masochistic and go live in your dream world where Presidents have the luxury to do on the job trainings while the country is self-sufficient.
Bong… it’s lonely to be brilliant… ahahaha. 😈
“the stark difference between this forum and FV…”
Ms. Miriam,
Please just listen what you’re saying.
If you take FV to task for not being open to divergent opinions, then the more that AP should welcome differing or opposing view points.
You cannot apply a different standard now that Anti-Pinoy is the more popular blog site 🙂
Unless, you want to go the way of FV, wala sanang bawian.
Who was it that said: weder weder lang yan 8)
@Phil Manila
When did AP not welcome opposing views? I still see Crab, GabbyD and JoeAm here. Those who can’t take the heat are the ones who leave as soon as they realise they’ve put themselves between a rock and a hard place. They also cry foul and whine too much about being bullied 😉
@Phil – note that your dissenting comments are not being deleted – it is legitimate dissent. but a comment which says one is being thugged – when there is none, is quite inaccurate – i will make it accurate 😈
it will be waste to see a blog post become inaccurate – seeing thugs where there are none – DELETE his comment so he can actually see a thug –
now he can write more posts. you see – i give people what they want – they ask for thugs – they get it.
careful about inaccurate accusations – i will gladly oblige to make posts become accurate 😉
when an idiot says – “am gonna bleed for ” – by all means, if he’s asking for it – make the idiot bleed – .
😆
Phil,
Who’s applying a different standard? We’re not deleting posts like FV is. That is an accusation by users here who could not find the “Older Comments” link, which appears when comment threads get very long, and thus is compressed according to this blog site’s comment system. 😉
not all opinions are equal. some opinions deserve more attention than others. it is discouraging that noynoy supporters have not come up with an argument that deserves a bunch electrons on the computer screen.
“not all opinions are equal. some opinions deserve more attention than others.”
Among the several I’ve seen here, this one deserves the MOST CLUELESS STATEMENT award.
Look at it this way, Phil.
“I know that 1+1=2.”
“No you’re wrong! My opinion is that 1+1=5. Your opinion is as good as mine.”
Obviously, some opinions deserve more attention than others because they are right, and the others are wrong. Or rather, the right opinions deserve attention, the wrong opinions don’t. 😉
They are floundering to find the answers to their delusions. Once the truth and the reality sets in . And, they are confronted by them: the stark reality that Noynoy Aquino cannot deliver what he promised. They are back in the Blame Game. Nothing left to blame now; except the ubiquitos Bloggers…it must be their faults: for them; not having Positive Thinking or Positive Mental Attitudes. They are the causes of why the country is not moving forward. What a stupid way to find someone to balme.
to add to chino’s comment (which illustrates the point very clearly), and to jump the gun on the potential that somebody will go “who are you to judge which opinions matter more?,” consider the following:
“groupthink” is a blog that silences/moderates dissenting opinion, like where we used to have discussions. poor nick.
“groupthink” is a very easy label to give ap when every dissenting opinion gets published here in entirety but hardly gets solid support from anyone else who shares the dissenting opinion. the dissenters being few (or many but invisible yet reading away) doesn’t make this “groupthink.” we make up our minds separately and then find that others agree here, so yahoo.
“groupthink” is 15 million voters buying the yellow overpromise, and staying in denial of the many early signs of underdelivery.
I think even when Philippines reach after-war scenario under our president, the latter supporters can still be happy supporting him, while ignoring their surroundings.
I think they are already contented with that so of course, breaking their time of happiness by telling them the truth will only result in mindless name-calling.
Wag lang silang magreklamo sa kahirapan ng buhay nila, bwiset. At huwag din nilang ipapasa ang sisi sa presidente na susunod kay Noynoy (tulad ng mga ilang problema na isinisi kay GMA).
@Phil Manila
This “GROUP THINK” you are talking about I have since 1986! It just happened that I found AP and am grateful of that because it changed my views about my countrymen/women – that not everyone in the Philippines is passive and apathetic. That not everyone here in the Philippines just go with the tide.
That not everyone can be fooled.
I was with the Lina Group who supported EDSA 1. I personally witnessed and experienced how people were manipulated and made to believe that it was all for democracy, when in fact, was it plain protectionism of their wealth and power.
Group think? MOAR LIEK KASAMAHAN AMIRITE!?!?!11
AP hasn’t moderated anything that has been pro-noynoy, which sadly hasn’t been anything constructive either (which then analysis should add up that there is a mutual relationship between Pro-noynoy and lack of logic to support the benefit of his administration, but that is for another blog). I’ve heard cases where people who have very logical and strong arguments get moderated heavily in FV, which is totally ironic considering its FILIPINO VOICES right? Not Pro-Yellow-Propaganda-concerned-with-myself-voices-only. AP is subtle about accepting opinions, despite the HUGE Anti logo while FV wants to run itself like a scripted drama show. But to each their own site owners and moderators.
In terms of Noynoy articles, you can’t have anymore sides of it because it FORCES YOU TO CHOOSE. There is no third, diplomatic side where you think he’s doing good but he can do much better. Noy’s media puppets are busy deflecting the issues that AP talks about while going after nonsense that they claim have more value but have nothing to do with the presidency.
I understand the need to not look at the President’s every action, and some yahoos go analyzing this like its FAUX news/CNN/MSNBC and rampant republicans attacking Obama but at least the beauty of that is at least they ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT ARE CONSCIENCE TO THEM. You don’t get that in the local media and FV, PEX, B7 are no better with their old, ancient ways of analysis and thinking regarding Pinoy politics and the pinoy society. The other thing is that Pro-noynoys CANNOT COMPLETELY JUSTIFY the decisions of the leader and the current administration. Yet AP will go the distance and within reason to do so and make it relevant.
Justification is staring ever 100 million pinoy citizens in the face, every day and will do so for the next 6 years. Anyone who is blind to it can’t pretend to join a logical discussion and pretend they know what is going on.
bakit andaming nagsasabing pagbigyan si noynoy?
former
Congressman/senator. Dating pangulo pa ang mama niya.
Why can’t we just let the experienced ones run this country?
Kasi gusto natin ng mga mala-telenovela ang pagtakbo ng ating gubyerno,
Remember that pinoys are suckers of reality shows. If you put their love for telenovelas into reality, of course they’ll reach that heavenly state that no forces like economic downfall or disaster can reach.
Noynoy may think he is not a super hero. I am convinced he is Obi Wan Kenobi or Princess Projectra .
He convinced a lot of voters during his campaign he was a leader. Or he convinced them leadership is not an essential ingredient in a president.
http://cornholiogogs.multiply.com/journal/item/1114/You_Mean_We_Have_To_Elect_A_Leader_
N0000000, being positive is exerting all your efforts to be seen on a certain news network camera, waving and smiling-
who cares if there are burning houses/dead man behind you? Just be happy! Smile.
In the end, happiness is all that matters. They may complain about how their life sucks but in reality, they are enjoying it.
@Phil Manila,
It is that way in reality. One has to be more discerning in choosing which people to take seriously. The weight of an opinion depends on, but not exclusive to, several things:
1. The authority of the person holding the opinion.
2. The experience of the person holding the opinion.
3. And more importantly, the reasoning behind the opinion.
Number 3 is the most convincing.
@ChinoF, Yes, in a civil manner. It is for the stinky person to decide to wash and have everyone happy, or he can choose to complain against the person who drew his attention to the problem and continue being a fool.
@ Chino,
I think that’s lawyering, my friend. Haven’t you heard of Desiderata :
‘Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story.’
@Phil Manila,
Maybe if you have the time in the world to consider all opinons. Philosophers of old had a lot of time in their hands to analyze things, even the nonsense. However they never considered nonsense opinions as something to take seriously, but only as cases of study on how to think correctly. We can learn something from bad opinions!
But in our discussion here, we are talking about opinions that you would adopt as your own or a basis for correcting your own opinion. We are not concerned with analyzing empty opinions here. Just waiting for Noynoy people to come up with a good argument. That’s all.
@ NFA Rice.
The original context of the thread was about democratic space and respecting divergent opinions. We were not talking about ‘expert opinions’ as what you seem to imply.
Anyway, I am not an P-Noy apologist. I’m just trying to provoke alternative view points. Hail King (Baby) Crab! 8)
Respecting divergent opinions? But how do you respect an opinion unless you decide it deserves your attention? You have to be concrete about respect, otherwise you are only paying lip service.
Previously, I listed three possible basis for respecting an opinion. In no way I was emphasizing expert opinion as the only thing to consider. The best way to judge an opinion is examining its reasoning, meaning using your own head to check it’s right.
PhilManila,
I never recommended divergent opinions to be banned from AP, but what I said was that, at least here, nobody cusses like that horrible commenter over at FV, you know who I am referring to. And to think that I was a regular commenter there, he had the nerve to call me names. . .
To quote from Field of dreams; If you build it, he will come
Sadly I have yet to have read a solid, thought provoking alternate view point worth having an academic discourse over from those who support the new administration and Noynoy’s decisions. Neither from crab, Joe, you, troll wannabes or the other sites.
But if anyone can build it, most likely a good argument will come.
The quote came from ” Desiderata”: ” with all the shams, drudgery and broken dreams. It is still a beautiful world. Strive to be happy.” ” Don’t worry. Be happy.:; the song goes….
If “lawyering” refers to my “1+1” comment… well OK. You might be implying it’s better to shut up and let the wrong people go on their own… but the thing is, if you forever hold your peace, you may never rest in peace. Better to speak up.
Desiderata isn’t good for everything. It’s only Max Ehrmann’s opinion. The dull and ignorant have their story too; but if you let them rule, folly follows. That’s a good way to explain how our country is.
The problems of the nation are too much to bear. They can never be solved by: slogans; gimmicks, positive thinkings, etc…We can just see these Aquino people desperate to placate their critics. They cannot even understand the process of positive thinking. The principle behind it; and how to apply it to your life.
They are trying to continue the deceptions and delusions of: EDSA nostalgia; change mantra and hope projection, etc…these tricks worked during the election; swallowed by gullible Filipino voters. Now, that these people are in power. They are confronted with the following dillemmas: (1) they cannot find anybody to blame like: Gloria Arroyo; Marcos, etc… (2) they are discovering the incompetence of their floundering President. (3) they found Noynoy Aquino is ” tamad”. He barks, but cannot bite. THERE IS NOWHERE TO DIVERT THE BLAME.
Now, they are trying to divert the blame to the Bloggers; who blog for the the truth. Bloggers are to blame for criticizing the imbecile, Noynoy Aquino. Bloggers do not have positive thinking? It’s his fault; he deceived people by telling them: your lives will be better; if you elect me as your President. He is now elected as President. The people’s lives has turned downhill. And he is blaming us for criticizing him?
@Hyden Toro I totally agree. Even some yellowtards are pushing congress to make a law against cyberbullying. They just couldn’t handle the truth and would prefer to marinate and swim in their yellow sea of pure illusion.
How will they enforce the law? The Cyberspace comes from all over the country and throught the world. It is a prelude to Censorship. Our Freedom of Speech and Opinion are in Jeopardy. The Aquino administration cannot handle the truth. That they are a bunch of:liars, deceivers; and pretenders that promised us some mirages, that enticed us to vote for them. THIS WILL LEAD TO INTERNET CENSORSHIP. IT IS THE DUTY OF EVERY FILIPINO CITIZEN TO RESIST THIS LAW BEING INTRODUCED… They want to make us remain ignorant, so that they can manipulate and rule over us…
Actually…. actually, GabbyD is correct when he notices that the benign0 blogpost has spent many sentences on the definition of “positive” but that the benign0 blogpost above has few sentences on the definition of “constructive”.
benign0 did say it is 💡 constructive to identify and highlight the “..weaknesses in the foundations of what it is we aspire to construct be identified” and that it is constructive to say that “being positive” is not enough.
ChinoF and a few others leave me the impression that they agree with benign0’s implied lists of “constructive”. This may not be true. 🙂 Some of you may agree but there may be disagreement about JoeAm’s 🙄 “constructive” belief for “foreigners to own Pilipinas land”. Some may agree and others may disagree about 😐 raising the VAT by another 3% or 5% to close the budget gap (or to build more schools). Same thing about debt — Is reneging on Philippines’ debt obligations a constructive suggestion? Is giving Ombudsman Gutierrez a five-million-dollar separation package so she resigns a constructive suggestion? Is postponing to next-year the P500 monthly social stipend for indigent elderly a constructive suggestion? Is restricting the vote only to college-graduates a constructive suggestion?
It is not that “constructive” means “constructive”, the issue is “constructive’ to whom. Remember that only many weeks ago, many Filipinos considered electing Noynoy Aquino as president to be 😯 constructive. Or that months before that, Gloria Arroyo considered surrendering half of Mindanao to BangsaMoro as constructive.
Let us know then what you think is constructive for you. If you think you have a better idea, it would be beneficial for all here that you share it. It might be a worthy contribution after all.
If you don’t share it… you might be counter-constructive. 😉
Pardon me if I sounded obtuse, but you may be right that the definition, or even the application, of what is “constructive” differs per person. And it is complicating things. I don’t think there should be that much of a difference… I’m sure that real definition of “constructive” is out there. But applying it… I’m sure we at AP are applying it well.
Well one thing’s for sure… telling AP to shut up or stop criticizing the current administration is counter-constructive. Because that’s suppression.
@UPnn,
you mean this may not be accepted as true. that’s okay. we all have opinions, even the dimwit i kissed earlier. but seriously, the underpinning by “a structured, critical, and realistic take on things” separates the good decisions from the bad, and the better choices from the mediocre ones. whichever of those suggestions pass through that qualifier should hold up to scrutiny, and for all we know, they could all be constructive in varying degrees, or not.
point is, if YOU are the decision maker and you had to make a decision between picking one suggestion over another, YOU have the responsibility of making your decision-making process one that is subject to that discipline underpinned by (say it with me) “a structured, critical, and realistic take on things,” not a baseless hope (which we could also call delusion at a certain extreme). your results will also be an indicator of whether your decision was out of being positive or constructive.
case in point: noy gets 15 million voters on the hope that his past performance is no indicator of how (badly) he will perform as president. as if the previous 12 years weren’t enough warning, he wins! now that’s pinoys being positive.
now we’re here talking about noy’s gaffes; it’s the least we could do as noy’s “bosses” to tell him to shape up. even the people who keep asking us to cut noy a break couldn’t deny noy’s having bumbled on his first month. our breathing down noy’s neck to make sure he keeps his promises = definitely constructive.
that’s why you vote for the competent person for President…. because you’re not choosing an intern. at least that’s how understand voting for a country’s President
nice trolling there lol
nice article btw~! more power to AP!
Fascinating dialogue.
Dissent appears to be okay as long as it falls into line with the thinking of the challenged party. Otherwise, the dissenter is labeled a moron, non-constructive, or some other demeaning nametag.
So I suppose open-mindedness is not in play. Indeed, defense of one’s intellectual realm is in play. Learning is not. Whacking with a verbal stick is.
I don’t argue stifle dissent, especially about specific actions or issues. Whack away. I do object to calling the electorate morons, or calling the President a moron, as I think Filipinos should be a tad more . . . um . . . um . . . proud of the democratic opportunities they are granted. And sacrifice a bit of self for the good of the whole.
It is a subject for a different blog, but I think self-sacrifice is not a strong Filipino trait, and that is evident in the comments on Anti-Pinoy. “My way or the highway” mentality.
Every democracy is flawed. Every president has a personality. They didn’t run to be your friend or soul mate. They ran because circumstances got them to the place where they could be important to themselves and others. The question I have is whether President Aquino is self-serving, as I judge his predecessors to have been, or more interested in public welfare. I can’t get that answer on Anti-Pinoy in a way that I have respect for, an answer that is calm and rational and separate from an agenda to take down the President.
not necessarily. some dissenters have managed to engage people in discussion without acting like you do (making paawa, begging for others’ sympathy as being bullied by thugs, being called names as if you didn’t do so yourself, pretending to have a hardline for being constructive when you do no such thing). hypocrisy does not gain much agreement here, thank goodness, unfortunately for you.
open to what, exactly? more gaffes?
what makes you think we need to jump off the cliff with you without a parachute to learn that it’s not a smart idea?
oh yes you do.
so it’s undemocratic to call a spade a spade? to speak out strongly is undemocratic? pinoy ka na nga. yours is just another version of “hwag kayong manghusga.” sorry, but no cigar for you.
you presume to preach self-sacrifice to people who may have had far more to sacrifice than you’ll ever know. see how that gains your pitiful arguments and appeal to sympathy any weight.
gee, as if that’s not what you’re doing. you’re quite a piece of work, joe.
the flaws in philippine democracy are NOT OKAY. the fact that every other democracy is flawed doesn’t make ours acceptable as it is.
if noynoy’s presidency is his search for his self-worth, then we’re doomed. he wasn’t elected so he could find himself. he was elected to do a job and take on a great responsibility. he certainly isn’t my friend so i choose not to cut him any slack, and many people choose not to cut him some slack either. tough luck, noynoy apologist.
after hundreds of articles (as far as pre-elections up to the present where the predictions are proving to be right), you still couldn’t get an answer for that? smacks of arrogant ignorance.
and what makes you think your manipulative whiny ways gain YOU respect? why would we want him to fail when what he does affects us all? we want him to straighten up and stop winging it. don’t you want him to stop winging it and bumbling around? then stop being a real phoney, joe america.
Parallelaxe,
I agree Filipinos have made huge sacrifices. I formerly lived in Zambales province and read the history of the WWII fighting in that general region. Most Americans focus on the Bataan death march as the greatest symbol of sacrifice in the Philippines, and it was huge and horrendous, for both Americans and Filipinos. But my heroes are the Zambales rebels led by the Magsaysay brothers, Ramon and Jesus, and the gritty resistance they put up throughout the Japanese occupation, and the brilliance of the final push that simultaneously blew up the Japanese communications infrastructure in the entire region and allowed American forces to land in San Antonio with no destructive bombardment required to soften the landing. The guys out in outrigger boats flagging down American warships to let them know not to fire cannons . . . now those were real heroes. Not a one has a name in the records of history I’ve read.
The Filipinos who pedal tricycles for P5 a ride, or bend in the rice fields, or do the hard housekeeping while the matron relaxes, or leave their home country to fend for their families . . . huge sacrifices.
But I am trying, and obviously failing, to get across a different notion of sacrifice. It is what the framers of the American Declaration of Independence and US Constitution were aiming at. They envisioned a land of substantial freedom, but knew it had to have a collective strength to succeed and prosper and defend itself. The balance between state’s rights and federal power is one of the teeter-totters, the levers that represent the balances and checkpoints that prevent totalitarian rule from emerging. It is brilliant, through every era except the current one, where new electronic media permit deceits to populate so many communications, and where partisanship in the form of sound bites is the dominant way of competing.
The notion of sacrifice I am reaching for is when a resident thinks of his neighbor before he thinks of himself (like doesn’t toss trash or let his dogs loose on the national highway to kill people on motorbikes). Or a politician asks “how can I get this corruption rooted out”, not “what’s in it for me if I have Uncle Bong on the Cabinet?” Or a citizen asks, “how can I help President Aquino succeed by WHAT I THINK AND SAY AND DO?”
Because if he succeeds, we all win. No matter how many haciendas there were or who his sister is.
That kind of sacrifice. It is hardest for people who truly dislike the man. But I stick by my view that the Philippines benefits by being proud of its democratic freedoms and processes, and accepting . . . no, supporting of the people who won office based on the vote. Yes, and while agitating for the specific actions that will make a more productive, wealthier, healthier Philippines. Note the preposition “for”; not simply against.
When I try to articulate this idea of sacrifice, or respect, or patriotism, I get called a yellow-flagged Aquino man and told to go back to FV. So I know I am failing to properly describe what I mean. If anyone grasps it and can help me out, I would appreciate it.
You are free to tear to shreds every sentence I write. That is no big deal. Any body can tear things apart. Anybody can argue against anything. You should see my young son deal with cell phones and other objects that dissemble. You can also easily tear people down, mock them, say “whiner”. Because intelligent people find it fruitless to enter into any kind of debate with a name-calling emo-brick who is not really interested in dialogue or “harmonized solutions”, only intimidation and self justification. . . exactly like so many of the old-school Filipinos that Anti-Pinoy condemns.
Love that “harmonized solutions” expression that popped into my head. You have any idea what I am talking about?? “Name-calling emo-brick” isn’t bad, either, if you will permit me a bit of real down-home arrogance. Not the kind of arrogance you imagine up out of your own insecurities.
I am inclined to wonder what you have ever built, or what you think you can build, apart from being a part of a gang that mainly throws rocks. I’m also inclined to wonder if you have ever changed your mind and incorporated someone’s opposing view into your own thought process, or if, for you it is simply defense of self-esteem – that good old parchment textured, flimsy, see-through, over-laundered, patched-up onion skin – that underwrites your style of debate.
Interesting you brought up here the noble ideals of the framers of the Declaration of Independence, indeed they were an inspiring bunch of men who carved into stone the inalienable rights of every individual to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. In light of the predominance of feudalism in the big wide world during those times, you can truly call the founding fathers courageous, brave, uncompromising, true revolutionaries who were ready to sacrifice and fight the Brits for such noble ideals. They were also of course self-serving, they wanted to end the tyranny of the oppressive treatment the King of England then rendered to the colonists. Great for those times, but they would have been even more noble had they put into practice their ideals without bias against the colored slaves forcibly traded by the very people they had these ideals in mind, or the women who made it possible for the early male settlers to conquer the big stretches of the U.S by submitting themselves to the rigors of life in the frontiers..
It took a Lincoln to challenge the hypocrisy of the system established by the founding fathers and a Martin Luther King a hundred years later to advance the inalienable rights of the blacks. Women’s rights too took historical upheavals to advance, but I guess the declaration of independence served as the ultimate ideal that advocates for progress drew inspiration from at every stage of history. In the Philippines, we still have a long way to go to realize the elimination of social injustice that has been with us since the Spanish times. This reality should not be glossed over in the name of the compromising stance of sycophants in the oligarch-favored social order. I am sorry but N/A is very much a part of this corrupt system that we are trying to reform. Over here at AP, we are trying to open the eyes of Filipinos to what ails the country. We have been discussing solutions, and surely our ways are not those of the cowards who want us to go along with idiocy that has long been the order of the day in the country, we are earnest in advocating change for the country.
We may not be the old revolutionaries in the past, well, they did not have a choice then, there was no internet yet, but we are here utilizing the democratizing potential of the internet, for we realize that the media institution has been responsible for our backwardness. You ever wonder why Filipinos don’t know anything about Hacienda Luisita and the oppression the whole issue represents? There are no serious documenaries about social issues in the country and rational solutions on how to solve problems. There are a few TV documentaries on social issues, but they are not taken up in public fora for debates, and no solution comes out of them because they are scarce and spliced with TV commercials, we need a public media with far reach to air issues like Hacienda Luisita and Land Reform in general.
We are keeping the important issues up for discussion in the public sphere lest the moronic media institution which FV writers does not question at all, but patronize prevails without competition. What is the use of internet if we don’t take advantage of its full potential for democratic reforms. If we disagree with people here who want us to sound appeasing to the shenanigans of N/A, it does not mean we are intolerant of dissent, we are only staying true to our beliefs. When people here tell you to go back to FV, I don’t think they are being mean, as they are simply being forceful and sarcastic in pointing out the stark difference between this forum and FV. When you ask, do you allow other people’s ideas to influence your own, this is rather a sophomoric question, for we all know that the thought process assimilates everything that the brain reads, hears and expresses. This is precisely the beauty of the blogosphere, there is no censorship and curious minds can interact with others, although modes of expression differ. Definitely, AP is not a site that promotes saccharine back-slapping and self-congratulatory rhetoric, and that is why I like it, well, aside from the fact that most residents here share my views of what should be done to save this sinking ship, the Philippines.
@joe:
thank you for clarifying, joe. for a moment there when you said “And sacrifice a bit of self for the good of the whole. It is a subject for a different blog, but I think self-sacrifice is not a strong Filipino trait, and that is evident in the comments on Anti-Pinoy” it seemed as if you were attacking people who agree with ap.
…
…
…
hold it a second… you were attacking ap dwellers when you said that. you really were! you didn’t mean the capacity of filipinos to endure sacrifices (it’s only a happy accident that you could spin it like that now); you were saying that the lack of self-sacrifice “is evident in the comments on Anti-Pinoy.” you were specific about the comments, but left out the articles. you weren’t talking about filipinos in general; you were referring to ap commenters, like many who’ve tried asking us “what have YOU done, huh?”
and you were saying this right in the middle of objecting to the freedom of non-yellow cultists to assert themselves strongly. indeed you are some piece of work, joe. but i will not call you a sanctimonious offspring of an unmentionable. not today.
now, when a citizen asks, “how can I help President Aquino succeed by WHAT I THINK AND SAY AND DO?,” the answer could be found in my earlier comment ADDRESSED TO YOU: “the dynamic of different views merging with solutions need to be a product of a discipline underpinned by a structured, critical, and realistic take on things happening all around us. the view that noy needs to be given slack and room to make more mistakes is one completely lacking that discipline, and completely moronic. cutting noy some slack WILL NOT IMPROVE HIS PERFORMANCE, but will give him the confidence to continue performing as stupidly as he did on his first 3 weeks. what part of that do you not understand, joe?”
did you see that i addressed that comment to you, joe? because if you didn’t then you’re deliberately ignoring what WE have to say, yet you presume to be on some higher moral ground. yet, i will not call you a sanctimonious offspring of an unmentionable. not today.
he can succeed despite his critics if he were genuine about putting the country’s interests before the vested interests that surround him. so i’m glad ap people do what they do. what, he can’t succeed under watchful eyes and public scrutiny? wasn’t he a senator before? wasn’t he in congress before that? geez, joe. i’m making an L-sign on my forehead but i’m not really sure whether it should be for noy or for you. (i think i’ll cut him some slack just this once so that you can have my L-sign 8) )
then that has to mean you will support EVERYONE and all of their opposing agenda, both the Administration AND Opposition. no ifs or buts, joe. even the stupid antics of senators and congressmen, mister joe america will support. (take note of this EVERYBODY!)
maybe because there is a massively flawed thinking behind it despite the superficial eloquence. the stubbornness to force the idea of cutting noy some slack is getting in the way of sane thinking. and of course, garbage does need to be taken out.
hey, the shoe fits. how easily torn down your arguments might be is your fault and yours alone. bring your a-game, not appeals to sympathy, maybe you’ll get somewhere. (i couldn’t help but notice how frustrated you are in failing to tear down other ap dwellers’ arguments with your defense of an alternative view. don’t hate the player, hate the game.) (that was a metaphor, okay joe? don’t bother going on a tirade with that. moving on.)
see? doesn’t it feel good to reveal your true colors joe? “emo-brick?” hahaha!
but isn’t the true emo the one who keeps complaining about being bullied by thugs or being intimidated or being pushed away for bringing flimsy arguments and dumb ideas? (yet HE’S STILL HERE! lol)
“harmonized solutions?” you haven’t brought any good suggestions to begin with, nor any solutions. what, cutting noy some slack is your solution? and to impose your concept of “harmony” we have to figure some way to conform to that? you’ve officially lost your marbles, joe. yet, i will not call you a sanctimonious offspring of an unmentionable, joe. not today.
finally joe america is showing signs of stimulation! i could pretend to have hurt feelings, but you’re too much fun all riled up.
harmonized solutions – mmmm, lemme see. i believe you mean “cut noy some slack/give noy a break/leave noynoy alone” is a prerequisite for ANY solution that you’d qualify as “harmonized.” you have any idea what i’m talking about, joe emo?
say what? insecurities? hahaha! rotflmao 👿
keep on guessing, joe. i could not care less what ten thousand joe americas presume to build any better than what i have or will.
thank you for calling the insights of many different people who beg to differ as mere “rocks.” these insights are actually gems, more valuable than any tirade you could ever muster. (don’t you just hate it when your insult backfires? lol)
actually, yes, i have indeed changed my mind and incorporated one ap author’s opposing view into my own own thought process. i will leave it to your drama-filled imagination.
i must’ve upset you far too much for you to even assume you could disparage my self-esteem or my style of debate. oh my gad, ang puso ko, arrggghh… it hurts… gasp!
but how could i call it a debate when my opponent keeps whining about how bullied he was, how intimidated he was, how he fell victim to thugs, how he’s been hit by “rocks”, how dissent is pushed away? it was more like talking to a stubborn brat, not a debate.
(yet, after all that, he is still here! talk about having an agenda and feeling like being on a high horse this guy. “dissent is pushed away” my @ss. 😈 )
have i told you you’re a real phoney, joe america?
Being my best self – that’s the best thing I can do for my neighbor – I suggest he do the same, or I can take it down to his notch.
The best sacrifice I can make is the sacrifice I make for myself. I have no right to make others sacrifice for me – nor do they have the right to make me sacrifice for them.
Hey Joe America:
How can a President; who himself is the Problem; becomes the solution of the problem? We cannot help; unless he helps himself and the country.The Philippines is a Feudal country. And Noynoy Aquino is the biggest Feudal Lord, of the country. We cannot go to point B; if he refuses to leave Point A. That is: implement the Land Reform Program. To have tenants own their lands they till. First thing is: he must Land Reform Hacienda Luisita, and the Haciendas of his Political Cronies. There are no middle ground compromises on this situation. We have to get the country out of Feudalism, before we can industrialize. Japan did that; after their defeat in World War II. The Japanese Militarists were the country’s Oligarchs and large Landowners. They lead their country to War in World War II. American General McArthur, had seen this problem; when he was the virtual ruler of Japan. So, he implemented the Land Reform Program for the whole Japan. To enable the Japanese to feed themselves.
Miriam,
I agree that the founding fathers were brilliant, and the democratic mechanisms they set up are particularly masterful at translating dissent into constructive acts. The checks and balances, including the role of public free speech and media, force a dialogue that results in new awarenesses of social ills like racism and translates sometimes bitter opposing views into solutions.
Blog sites like AP lack such balancing mechanisms. Nothing forces compromise and forward-moving, constructive action except where there is a voluntary willingness to listen, bend occasionally, and search for ways to find new acts that work positively. It is a form of sacrifice, one that none appears willing to make. Certainly not BongV, who parrots Ayn Rand’s economic view that self-interest is what drives productivity; he believes that is also the path to social harmony and progressive action. I couldn’t disagree more. The currency of social harmony is goodwill, not money. His self-service perspective is the same motivation that drives corruption. To each a morality of his own and screw the common good.
Here, mostly, it is brickhead against brickhead. A view is postulated and defended. An opposing view is stated. Then no one moves. No one looks for the areas of agreement that point to a path that both sides can walk down agreeably. The name-calling begins, the dialogue descends into a discussion of people’s motives and ways of expression, ala Parallelaxe vs Joe America. The thread peters out, and we move on into the next postulation and set of wall of bricks.
Nothing happens.
I believe the US founding fathers would stand amazed at the lack of intellectual depth that exists here, the lack of humility, the absence of kindness, the abandonment of community, the failure to listen and bend, the inability to change. I’m one of the failures, and so are you. We are unable to set aside grievances, look for areas of agreement, and from that extract approaches that are new to both of us and constructive for the Philippines.
We just blather on, one brick to another. Like watching Wowowee every day . . .
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to claim having an intention of reaching “harmonized solutions” when the same visitor tells ap’s people that there is an amazing lack of intellectual depth here, as if to suggest HE is the only one who brings the solutions, the insights, the intellectual depth (and nobody else on ap).
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to say he never resorted to name-calling when there is documented evidence to the contrary.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to keep whining about how his dissent isn’t welcome when in actuality, all his whining gets published on ap.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to say there are no balancing mechanisms on ap as if to suggest that it takes HIS presence and HIS opposition to achieve whatever notion of balance he fails to define.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to claim he advocates self-sacrifice when he steamrolls his ideas through, and just as easily dismisses bongv’s out-of-the-box thinking.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to PANDER by pretending to include himself in the blame for a discussion’s descent into one of motives and manner, when shortly before that, he has just attributed blame COMPLETELY on ap and its supposed lack of propensity to compromise.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to post EVERYTHING he wants to express here, and then claim that ap does not have that willingness to listen as if listening and agreeing were the same thing.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for a visitor to say “No one (not even himself) looks for the areas of agreement that point to a path that both sides can walk down agreeably,” when he himself has not offered anything worth agreeing with.
it takes tremendous hypocrisy for that same visitor still, to pontificate on being constructive and forward-moving when less than half a day after pandering as he did above, he writes his own blog post claiming that his comments were removed on ap, that he doesn’t mind a private blog’s prerogative to edit/censor (yet he still complained that his comments were moderated as if any took place at all), that ap’s approach is thuggery inclusive of deleting his posts.
people can see through your lies and your hypocrisy, joe america.
i once had a bit of respect for you back at fv when i noticed that you always tried to incorporate some sophistication and perhaps the occasional uncommon insight. a lackey for sure, but a smarter sounding one.
but now you’ve nothing but sophistry and blatant lies.
you were never really anything better than your old buddies at that rot spot of a blog.
so much for “harmonized solutions.” now, anything and everything you say is suspect.
without a doubt, you’re real phoney, joe america.
… daaang
… joe ‘merkan naman naman namannn
… firstly, do not compare ‘merkan democracy and flipland democrazy… from scratch, ‘merkans FORMED their own govt… ‘merkan patriots were in charge of their destiny; whereas, flips were handed a watered down version of govt… flips were puppets, merkans pulled the strings… ‘unc sammy controlled (and still does) the workings of gung gong govt…
… secondly, merkan electorate is way civilized and educated than flips’… ‘merkans are LAW ABIDING; flips are LOW ABIDING…
… turdly oooopsie thirdly, flipland democrazy has all the hardware of democratic form of govt but none of the software to run it…
… shall i continue?
… so, joe ‘merkan… you don’t know jack about flip mentality… flips are like turds flowing in pasig river… just go with the flow… 😳
dear porcelain padre,
My rubber boat, one of those missing when Teodoro was paddling directionless about Manila after Ondoy, has been coated with Teflon and a stink-protector.
So this exchange of angst is rather like white water rafting. Thrills, chills and God forbid, no spills.
The color is just different.
The problem of Noynoy Aquino apologists is: they refuse to see the true issues of our country. Because, these issues affect the Land Holdings of Noynoy Aquino and his Landed Political cronies. The Land Reform Law is passed, during the Gloria Arroyo’s administration. It’s time to implement it to the whole country. To divert this true issue, is to prevent the Land Reform Program, to be implemented.
It is a clear and a simple issue. However, they are trying to put aside the Program, because of the presence of vested interests, who are in power
… daaang
… joe ‘merkan… the “grease up the skids” thingy is over… it only applies and works to gung gongs (in flipland) and flipflams/’merkan wannabes… it’s going to be rough ride for the likes of you to convince us…
… APs can see thru the bullsh!ts…
Joe, AP itself is the balancing site for the conformist and compromising internet sites that abound about Philippine life. I have read and visited some of these sites and I even invested lots of time and tried to accommodate the mental productions of writers at FV, but in the end, all that I wrote there well, useful perhaps for the other readers, but for many regular commenters, I got chopped to pieces too and was insulted by that jackass, youknowho. And if it were not for him, okay, I am about to do some more name-calling here, stop me, I would still be posting comments there. I think that instead of lecturing the likes of BongV, Benigno and Parallelaxe, you should just address the issues the way you view them. I do not agree completely with BongV and at times with Iida, although I find myself in agreement with her most of the time and with Chino F, and all I do is express what I think and they are pretty reasonable people. True, they are a bit morre passionate here about their dislike of N/A, and so do I, for truly, the past election was an exercise in futility and it has affected many of us who rooted for more qualified candidates in an emotional way, whether we like it or not. But let us not lose sight of the fact that besides the snide remarks here, there is a lot of truth about the writers’ assessment of what is happening in the country and there are rational solutions being put forward by the regular bloggers.
BongV offers a fresh and different perspective from say BenK, or say from Jose Rizal, Morga is a very keen and articulate observer of the dismal state of the media, I must say, I appreciate his articles very much, since I have stopped reading Filipino newspapers online on a regular basis; there is really nothing you can get from them in terms of substantive content, occasionally, I find something informative from the press, but forget about TV, it is a total waste of time. I beg to disagree, it is not wowowee here, this is a site that is full of brilliant ideas, and we focus on issues, and N/A is very much a part of the problem of the country. He may yet prove a lot of the skeptics wrong, but so far, really he has been a disappointment. I am still seething with disgust over how he insulted Japan in his answer to an NHK reporter about Philippine-Japan relations under his administration. You know Joe, I teach Japanese Politics, and I know too well, the current political struggles Japan is facing and they are trying very hard as a people to break the stalemate in policy-making in order to solve current ills in the country. Some politicians have already committed suicide due to failure of their efforts to solve problems facing the country. And then, you have a dimwit of a president of a failed state, telling you arrogantly that you should fix your problems first so that we will not be confused on how to deal with you. To me, who understand Japan’s current political problems, I am amazed by the insensitivity N/A has shown to the biggest foreign aid donor of the Philippines. Need I say more. . .
How are we supposed to view N/A gaffes this early in his administration, are we supposed to say only flattering things about his hobby of shooting guns, about his shopping at malls with nephews, about his empty verbal promises that have not been substantiated with concrete action plans. Joe, we are not FV, we are not part of the moronic media institution, you cannot expect us to be idiots in the face of N/A gaffes thus far. If I were you, I would just ignore the trolls and concentrate on the golden ideas by the articulate writers here, so what if BongV believes in Ayn Rand, I don’t and I have expressed my dislike of Ayn Rand here, but this is not to say that BongV’s ideas do not have any merit at all, that is because, he is proposing to reform our system with clarity of vision, which everyone here certainly does not have to agree with. I am skeptical of unchecked globalization myself, I am not for the legalization of pornography, although rational arguments point to lifting the ban on pornography seem convincing, but am I about to lecture the writers here who I disagree with, hell, no, that is because it is very irritating to be lectured, and I must say Joe, you do have this tendency, you should just express what you think like PhilManila and Gabby D do., sure, there will be unpleasant responses from people, but at least they are not calling you all those names that were thrown at me at FV and now I wonder why I did not read any comments from you rebuking that , okay another invective is about to be written here. . .
Joe, the blogosphere is not really a community in a way that the founding fathers imagined a community to be. It is a blob in the chaotic canvass of the universe, a marketplace of ideas where people write about what they feel and think after reading a blog. There is dialogue here and the transformative function that potentially the blogosphere is capable of is to open an engaged mind to the perspective of others. If you are looking for a consensus here that is definite and is pointed to one direction, there is none. There are many points of dissent and assent, a concrete action plan is not dictated by any one group of people. Fluidity of ideas defines the blogosphere, each one has its own dominant mode of expression, AP happens to be one that has a lot of edge to it, you say there is no depth here, and is there one over at FV? Depth is something you reach alone, not in a disparate collection of musings and ideas of an imaginary community of people.
Then, the self that has reached depth through engaging people in the exchange of ideas without any definite consensus could be the best he can in his real human relationships. Well, for me, I am just glad the AP perspective is there to jolt people from complacency and mental sloth. I recall getting a very strong reaction from a commenter at FV when I said Filipinos as a people are incapable of self-reflection and many of them blab about how great Filipino culture is, hey, wasn’t I glad to have found AP, the exact opposite of the delusional views of Filipinos of their culture. I must say one secret of Japanese success is their developed capacity for self-reflection as a people historically, this country is humble enough to change and learn from the lessons of history, the Filipinos get defensive when a cultural weakness is thrown at their face, there are exceptions of course, but the exceptions are a minority, AP is the voice of that minority.
@Miriam
This is a very good point. Back when FV still had a pulse but barely alive, I would visit the site once in a while and read the commentaries. I saw the others bully you for supporting Gibo. I really didn’t see Joe America or any of the others stop them from doing so. His cry of foul here at AP is a bit, well… hypocritical, to put it mildly 😉
I can’t believe people still defend the FV writers as if they are God’s gift to the Philippines. They are totally clueless and in denial. Their support for P.Noy is proof of this.
Miriam,
I think you misjudge me, perhaps because you buy into the oft-repeated accusations that I am an “FV guy” (an easily spouted distortion of truth by people like Ilda that derives mainly from the fact I disagree with some of the AP perspectives and accept the principle that a blog editor has editorial rights; distortion is done so well on AP, for sure) and therefore you connect me with the bad treatment you received on FV. I’m as independent as independence comes, totally unfitted to any predefined box and unwilling to walk with labels slapped on my forehead by people who presume the wisdom of Jesus in defining who the real JoeAm is. I don’t know who I will be when I start writing, so how can some twit with an overblown ego and under-developed sense of self correctly define me? He is only defining himself through his nonsense.
Here is an excerpt from a blog I posted on my own blog site, entitled: “Anti-Pinoy: Deceit or Honor?” You should read it. You might be surprised at what you don’t know. Just click on my name above, and it will take you to the site for the full rendition:
“BongV’s strength is his ability to acquire information on the internet and post reams of historical, definitional, or insightful analysis in a short time. He is acerbic, occasionally witty and personable, but evidently very bitter about how he was treated when he was in the Philippines. He can dish out criticism but perhaps can’t tolerate the same treatment aimed at him..
..
Benign0 has, in my view, the deepest Filipino mind on the internet. He doesn’t just look at the events, he looks at the reasons, the dynamics that create them, and the personal failings that are behind the dysfunction that is rampant in the Philippines. He sees things that the rest of us don’t, and is very skilled at putting them into words, words that often sting for their ability to slice and dice right into people’s vulnerabilities. I’ve had to concede many an argument to his superior perspectives.
BenK is much like me, a pragmatist who enjoys writing and experiencing a culture that is different from the one he experienced in the US. Whereas I blow off into the winds on words that go astray searching for literary clout, he stays practical and constructive. He deals with issues as issues, and only when it is the only resort will he label an idiot an idiot.
Frick, Flack and Frack.
Gotta respect them, appreciate them, no matter the number of flies in their assorted ointments. . .”
@miriam
“There is dialogue here and the transformative function that potentially the blogosphere is capable of is to open an engaged mind to the perspective of others. If you are looking for a consensus here that is definite and is pointed to one direction, there is none.”
are u saying consensus is not possible here? what is the point of dialogue when consensus is not possible?
PS: i’ve disagreed w u on the surveys, but i’ve always treated u with respect.
Joe – your full of bullshit – you are attributing your behavior to me. Lokohin mo panot mo. 😆
instead of whining about me – review your assumptions and substantiation – you got NOTHING.
if you can’t handle that – there’s no point in having you around – your comment is as good as SPAM – worth deleting. worth BANNING -due to ZERO contribution to the discussion.
“are u saying consensus is not possible here? what is the point of dialogue when consensus is not possible?”
Does the goal of dialogue always have to be consensus?
there is no consensus between right and wrong. the purpose of dialogue is to exhange views – and understand each other’s views.
a) validation of one’s position
b) a reconsideration of one’s position
c) to get more clarifications
depending on the case, there can be a consensus that one position is right, wrong, or a blend can be reached – one size does not fit all.
if the cases (posts) come to a conclusion – dispute the conclusion, dispute the facts – if you can’t dispute the facts – don’t be a crybaby and attack the author.
if i show info, show your info – i can be wrong and i will greatly appreciate your showing the contrary facts. having read that doesn’t mean i will not dispute the interpretation of the facts. that’s the process to bring about clarity.
oftentimes the method of reduction ad absurdium – brings out clarity – and apparently – joe hates having his arguments look absurd – which makes him look absurd. he’s got issues
this is a marathon – not a sprint.
… daaang
… right or wrong is all relative… it depends which side of the fence you’re in…
… take both sides with a grain of salt… because one of these days, somewhere, you’ll utter… wow, the wrong was right (or the right was wrong) after all…
… “20/20 hindsight”, “i told you so”, etc., thingies are the product of opposing views… both wright or rongs or wrongs or right are right or is it wrong… ???
… hay naku… matutuyo ang regla ko sa inyo…
@bong
“there is no consensus between right and wrong. the purpose of dialogue is to exhange views – and understand each other’s views.”
parang kulang… once u’ve understood the other’s views, and the other has understood urs… then if one party holds a “wrong” posiition; that should be clear, right?
so, consensus is the goal of dialogue, would u agree
@chino
so, consensus is the goal of dialogue, would u agree?
No.
@chino
dont leave us hanging. what is the goal of dialogue?
note that consensus does not necessarily mean all differences are set aside, only a recognition that some views are valid also, even tho they arent ur own view.
may i butt in, gabbyd?
consensus cannot be forced (1) when it isn’t necessarily the goal of both parties, or (2) when the views do oppose each other enough for the ideas to clash and become incompatible in practice. in a situation where one idea replaces another (or is a substitute of the other), like breathing versus holding one’s breath, you can’t do both.
which means no, consensus isn’t necessarily the goal of dialogue. both sides will have to NEED consensus to aspire reaching one.
Parallax is right. I’ll just add, there is no one goal of dialogue. It can be done to merely discuss one’s opinions, to reach a consensus, to convince the other person, or other purpose. If a dialogue has no agreement or consensus, that’s fine. Consensus is never the only goal of dialogue.
@Miriam
The comment thread in the below blog will give you a more accurate account of why Joe has a beef with AP. If you have the time, please read through it. This should show you and everyone who is interested, the reason why Joe America is very much associated with FV. Aside from the fact the he was a regular commentator in that blogsite, he used to defend it and the writers there with the same level of energy as how he accusing us of maltreating him now. His obsession with AP is reaching ridiculous levels. I don’t even understand why he is now reduced to telling everyone that AP deleted his comments. It’s a bit desperate.
Noynoy supporters are getting fed up
@ilda
Thanks for the thread. I think Joe America is getting senile. 😐
Hmmm, Iida, JoeAm is a piece of work, I think we should be more indulgent to him here, it is not easy to be an expat wherever he is, it seems he finds great comfort in the company of snakes in his bamboo groove. How he describes his wife is like a man who is not fully emotionally engaged with his better-half, truly, I find his musings shared about his wife rather condescending and this is not to invite a tirade from Joe, he seems lovable enough the way he is, if we are generous enough to be indulgent, after all his blogs I am sure do not have the big following that AP has on Facebook. Peace Joe, and take care of yourself, those snakes could still get you, I mean, you could step on them while walking in the dark. .
correction: bamboo grove
@mel
No problem. I am glad I have the opportunity to present both sides. Some people can be good at twisting the truth.
@Miriam
What I find baffling is that some people don’t realise that the other commenters can see through the lies.
I think Joe is giving AP writers too much credit for the wisdom of our readers. It’s not like we used voodoo on AP fans for them to like the articles here. You guys were already smart to begin with. You just needed a place to vent and appreciated the fact that your views are very similar to ours that’s why you are here. There is no “ganging up” on anyone here like someone is claiming.
What kind of reaction to opposing views does Joe want anyway? Something like “Oh you disagree with us, that’s good, cheers!” If that’s the only reaction he wants, then there wouldn’t be any dialogue anyway.
In any discussion especially about politics and religion, things always have the potential to heat up. Tough luck to those who can’t stand the heat. The bottom line is, if you can’t defend your position, it only means your position is weak. Each individual should be man enough to admit when he/she is wrong after the realisation. Whoever has the strongest position should rule.
@ilda
“You just needed a place to vent and appreciated the fact that your views are very similar to ours that’s why you are here. ”
if so, is discussion between people who believe in different things possible?
serious question.
for you: is it possible for u to have a good, fruitful discussion with a supporter of Pnoy? what is ur requirement to have such a good, fruitful discussion.
a related question: does a supporter of Pnoy have to stop being a supporter to have a good, fruitful discussion?
@gabbyd:
sure. as long as neither party throws falsehoods or lies.
how do you define “a good, fruitful discussion” gabs?
you were asking the question above, YOU should qualify it.
define “a good, fruitful discussion.”
no.
does a non-noynoyista have to be any less assertive? no.
@paralax
thanks for ur answer. define good/fruitful discussion — a discussion that help bridges the differences between people. leads to consensus… note that consensus NEED NOT MEAN that all differences need to be erased, only that there is an understanding (consensus) that there may be different ways to view the same idea.
another way of putting it in a specific example: is it possible to support Pnoy and NOT be crazy/stupid/lazy/unoriginal?
@gabs:
thanks for making it clear.
i think differences in opinion could be bridged, and possibly a consensus is reached, sure. just because it doesn’t happen often between diametrically opposed views doesn’t mean it never can/will happen.
factors come into play: clarity of message, validity of ideas and the reasoning behind them, ability of messenger to defend his/her message.
both parties might not have the same goal. one party might want consensus, the other might be able to walk away without consensus. another scenario might be neither needs consensus. sometimes the two parties might have competing ideas, not complementary. when they do complement each other, then you might get to consensus easier. replace, combine, discard, modify.
it really depends on whether the things that happen under Noy’s control could be labeled otherwise.
he really has to match his convictions with his commitments. then there’s the matter of delivery.
on a related note: the critical look at noy keeps him from resting on his laurels, so while he is being criticized, noy is pressured to get the job done right. when he does it right, he might actually win praises from people in this blog. well, i speak for myself on that last sentence. until then, he still has to earn it. fair enough?
“Dissent appears to be okay as long as it falls into line with the thinking of the challenged party. Otherwise, the dissenter is labeled a moron, non-constructive, or some other demeaning nametag.”
i share the same observation.
for me, its ok to disagree. i just hate the name-calling coz it takes space and time away from real discussion, which is what i enjoy.
name-calling is part of the freedom of expression. people agreeing on ideas is natural. the question is whether the agreed on ideas are correct. moreover, name-calling is a conclusion derived after observing consistent behavior – not as an a priori conclusion.
speaking of ideas:
Idea 1: “1+1=5”, supporters=100
Idea 2: “1+1=2”, supporters = 3
Case in point, Galileo and the Catholic Church. Gordon and the Philippine electorate. Walmart vs Kmart. Philippines ws Singapore. Spontaneous generation vs evolution. We can go on and on and on.
***
the problem with Joe Am – is he cannot take dissent to his “dissent”. He alleges, I or AP cannot take dissent – hello. Crab, GabbyD are dissenting just fine. and they have not been whining like Joe Am. Crab and GabbyD – roll with the punches as we do.
So, when Joe Am was looking for a thug where there was none – I hate to see Joe Am’s post be inaccurate about thugs. He was looking for one where there was none, he was asking for one, he was given one.
Joe writes, people rebut – what Joe wants is when he writes people stop answering.
ano si Joe Am – siniswerte? thesis-anti-thesis-synthesis – the process repeats itself
and if his comments are questioned – the questioners are THUGS? here’s what a THUG does – you don’t get to QUESTION
he is free to comment in the threads – but people are not free to question his comments?
he wrote about thugs before where there was none – AP is just making sure that Joe becomes accurate
tinamaan ng ninja – you don’t want replies to your comments – there’s no point in having your comment around its as good as SPAM – it needs to be DELETED!
Gabby D., consensus may not be reached by two unbridgeable viewpoints, haven’t you heard of honest disagreement? The purpose of a public forum like this is to be able to air out one’s point of view with the purview of others. You can have a private exchange of ideas with a friend over dinner or coffee, but on this space, there are other readers whose minds are given a gateway to a different perspective. In other words, we can agree to disagree and if in the process a consensus is reached, so be it, but I am not here to weaken my convictions of the bankruptcy of the Noynoy presidency, I am here to find a solution to the biggest political problem of the country, that of popularity-based politics, and hopefully, find some viable solutions, we don’t know how this internet technology could help transform our bankrupt politics, it may yet prove useful, who knows. . .
“consensus may not be reached by two unbridgeable viewpoints, haven’t you heard of honest disagreement?”
in my “definition” of consensus, it NEED NOT BE that all differences are reconcilled. at the very least, there is an acknowledgment that BOTH POSITIONS have merit, but one is better than the other.
“The purpose of a public forum like this is to be able to air out one’s point of view with the purview of others.”
ah, perhaps this is what bong meant by “dialogue for dialog’s sake”. if true, it isnt REALLY A DIALOGUE, dialogue requires an exchange… an true exchange means that both parties are improved.
if all u want is to “air out ur point of view”, then its not a dialogue.
“m here to find a solution to the biggest political problem of the country, that of popularity-based politics, and hopefully, find some viable solutions,”
can u find solutions if all u do is “air ur point of view”?
But if both sides air out their points of view to each other, it is dialogue.
If your point of view is “1+1=2” instead of “1+1=5”, you can find solutions.
@GabbyD
I wish to add my 2 centavos:
Of course it would be great if both sides of the debate are improved through dialogue. But you have to be definite by what you mean by improvement. When might an opinion be improved by dialogue? When it assimilates the good aspects of the opposition. This requires examination of the opposing view with some discernment. However, P.Noy apologists have not offered anything worth thinking about. I believe BongV and others respond to you in the hope that you learn something and correct the wrong-headedness. That’s the dialogue at work. However if nobody is improved, at least dialogue happened, there was an exchange of ideas, knowledge about each other gained. Nothing wrong with that.
Moreover, I give you credit for being civilized in your posts. That’s what make your posts worthy of reading and replying, unlike the others I won’t mention.
Hmmm… I want to contribute a reply here.
Think of it in terms of my example.
Opinion: “1 peso + 1 peso = 2 pesos, right?”
Dissent: “Wrong! 1 peso + 1 peso = 11 pesos! I disagree with your opinion!”
or:
Opinion: “If you use your credit card too much, you’ll get into debt!.”
Dissent: “That’s a stupid opinion! Just be positive! If keep on thinking you’ll get into debt, you will get into debt! If think you won’t get into debt, you wont! You’ll see, I won’t get into debt no matter how times I use my card!”
If you don’t think the Dissent is moronic, you may need to put a brain in that void in your head.
Now that’s constructive advice. 😉
Gabby D., with all my word production over at FV, infinite exchanges with people I could never agree with on the idiocy of electing a non-performing public servant , were Bert, you, Thenashman, et al and me improved in our differing positions? I honestly think that my time over at FV was only worthwhile because of the other readers outside of the forum itself, because I could explain why i was supporting Gibo instead of the nondescript politician. Was I able to make the others see the wisdom of voting for the most competent candidate, no, did they convince me to vote for N/A, no, in the end, exchanges got nasty with many over there, making fun of me, and that was fine cause during that specific time, I chose to be part of the forum. Did I blame FV for the name-calling that others subjected me to at the forum, no, that’s because I was too slow to realize I did not fit in that forum, that a lot of the regular bloggers there are establishment-people and I got bored in the end.
Oh how ironic considering Noynoy’s biggest fans have been writing to him to Malacanang non-stop about what they want done with the country or worst, their own personal problems and what their new lider can help out with such dilemmas as their son having a condition that needs medical attention. You know the kind of personal favors only sycophants would stoop low enough to ask for their assumed fellow pinoy that he did so well selling himself as.
Joe, I think you’re a swell person and if happen to be the one with the critical thinking then take this suggestion from someone who respects you. Take the pants back in your relationship.
Telling AP to shut up? I will believe that when during a campaign, politicians themselves shut up and let their work history speak for themselves. No promises. Just evidence of work and accomplishment. It has been done by Ralph Klein in Alberta, Canada. He was so good, his opponents had minimal press covering them during their campaigns.
exactly! real-time decision support systems are exceptions-based.
these administration is “exceptional” 😆
Well, it’s my assumption that critics just want us to shut up. They probably use the saying, “if you have nothing good to say, don’t say anything at all.” But I countered this saying in my FB status.
Great blog Benigno! keep up the good work AP especially about Peenoy’s “performance”, it seems that you’re being barraged by yellow zombies lately, just shows that the truth hurts 😀
sorry, I meant to write bamboo grove. . .
@gabbyD – I disagree. there is dialogue for dialogue’s sake. and there is dialogue for consensus sake. we might be resorting the fallacy of equivocation here. – using one word “consensus” – in various different contexts.
for example – creationism vs evolution – there is a consensus for creationism and there is a consensus for evolution – which consensus is more correct? 8)
so – be specific about what the “consensus” is all about. – give the particulars instead of applying broad strokes.
@bong
consenus, in the sense of 100% agreement, is possible in certain contexts — not in others.
ur example is creationism vs evolution. the answer is, it depends, what is creationism?
if creationism WANTS TO BE SCIENCE, then it must be judged as such. what is the scientific evidence? is the theory consistent, etc…
in politics, its much much more difficult in general to create a consensus that is possible in the natural sciences.
We cant be more SPECIFIC than this. but we can discuss examples as they come up.
my QUESTION:
WHAT IS DIALOGUE FOR DIALOGUES’ SAKE? EXAMPLE?
Probably what we’re doing here is one example. 😆
It depends on what Pnoy is doing – if he’s doing stupid stuff and you support it – you are a genius?
Argumentum ad populum. That maybe convincing when authorities hold the consensus. You take the consensus seriously because most, if not all, authorities hold it. Authorities being the experts of the subject matter relevant to the opinion. But even then authorities can be wrong. Ideas advance because a few show the consensus to be incorrect.
Even if we assume Noynoy voters are authoritative, they don’t really form a consensus because they only form about 42% of voters.
The logic thread here has become surreal,
when truths are miscast in different colors,
when kindness is returned with insult,
when the only thing that counts is the win.
Ilda, my comments were removed from the web site by BongV.
It is truth.
Deal with it.
Here is the commentary I registered on my own blog site regarding
Bong’s rationalizations, repeated above on this site.
———–
Ah,
the arrogance, the arrogance,
you assume I don’t want replies, which is of course wrong and juvenile,
you call others morons and idiots,
including the President of the Philippines,
but the term “thug” applied to you and your private army of club bearing AP minions drives you berserk,
so you intimidate,
it fails,
and then you reach for the blog-editors gun,
the delete switch
and rationalize the basis for doing so.
AP, the Ampatuan approach to managing a blog.
Truly, it is beneath you,
to be so personally offended that someone
would come in with a different point of view,
and object to the intimidation-mode
that so reflects how many in the Philippines operate
if they have but a little power.
being called a thug does not drive us berserk. it makes us HAPPY to see you whining like an old faggot ander de saya 😆
… daaang
… joe ‘merkan… a poet laureate… wow… that’s deep…
… it’s not going to change prez gung gong outlook…
… his benchmark: useless while a senator, clueless as a prez….
… he has nowhere to go but up… you can lead the flip gung gongs in prayers for his success…
😆
@Joe
There is no evidence that your comments were deleted. I know for a fact that BongV experiments with the site quite often. Recently, he rearranged the sequence of the comments to make the recent ones appear at the top. It is now back to how it was before. This is the only explanation. You making a big deal out of it makes you look so desperate.
Try to limit the discussion to the subject of the blog not on your and AP writer’s personality. Frankly, I am getting tired of reading about how you have been “allegedly” mistreated around here. The world does not revolve around you.
Hey Joe America:
Poetry cannot remove the reality, we are in. Nobody is harassing you. We just want to have a healthy
debate with you. Are you suffering from persecution complex? Are you out of your bonker, like Noynoy Aquino, whom you rabidly is defending? We respect your views. The same way you must also respect our views and position.
I think part of this behavior is something that a lot of expats settling in the Philippines struggle with.
You are a guest in this country and it can be difficult to slag the place off all the time. He might be casting around for something good to say about Philippines, so we get “at least you are democracy” stuff.
Most of expats when they come to the Philippines are well aware that it was a matter of choice, and so it seems illogical or at least ill-mannered to be critical.
But they reach a certain point where what they see going on around them just seems wrong and can’t be explained away as an acceptable ‘cultural difference’ and it can be a real moral dilemma. Particularly if you’re of a particular mindset, well beyond retirement age and having come here with the feeling that
you’ve done your duty and you just want to relax with a low-speed life on some tropical island.
It becomes very personal, because in a way, admitting the truth of what you observe is also admitting that you just might have made a big mistake in coming here, one that you might not have the resources to correct, or can only do so with great difficulty.
Being more of a ‘silver lining’ person is a way of compensating, I suppose, and while that certainly wouldn’t work at all for me, I can at least understand it if that’s what he needs to do to cope with his life in the Philippines.
That perspective, while perhaps not directly relevant to solving the issues in the country, actually does say something about the state of things and has a subtle sort of value in that respect.
It’s going to be a culture shock. considering that OFWs are looked at as ATMs,expats are looked at as bank vaults. That can be tough for retirees living on a pension with the entire barrio of relatives trying to pull a fast one. For expats who marry a middle class family – that’s not much of an issue – it’s the extended family which can be such a drag.
Then comes AP articulating the issues – it is tearing an expats world view of the Philippines apart – shattering the myth of a “tropical paradise”. He is left clutching for straws – angry that the bliss of his ignorance was shattered. How dare AP?
And that’s why it’s important to engage with people who think retiring to the Philippines is a bed of roses.
The more pragmatic and grounded expats are no problem. They will figure out the best way to make their own personal peace with life here is to face it squarely, in their own ways. The white tontows like Don Herrington are no problem, either; they’ve chosen to blind themselves to the wrongs, and will actively ignore anything that threatens that view — in that sense, they’ve already surrendered their option of having any say-so in where the tide of the country is going to carry them.
Some expats, on the other hand, are somewhere in between: they feel the “the mute protest in his own bones.” They don’t want to face the problems, but are smart enough and rational enough to know somehow that they can’t really avoid it.
They know they are falling — and make frantic attempts to untangle the parachute.
Taking part in the discussion (instead of talking about the discussion) and gradually correcting erroneous views in that manner is giving him the same lesson one expat eventually learned, after he lived in the Philippines for a couple years: the parachute is f*cking useless, if you want to survive, you better figure out how to fly. Or at least glide.
ah, the Real Phoney Literary Fairy returns to perform the Liar Liar Pants On Fire dance!
sayaw, joe, sayaw! 😈
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I think recognizing a common ground is the way to go forward. What is the common ground between P.Noy and Anti-Pinoy?
Good question! Love of country perhaps?
Though they have different points of view on that. One is genuine, the other is superficial.
Sabihin ninyo mayayabang kayo kaya madali sa inyo ang name-calling, mga p***** ina ninyo kaya buti pa gayahin ko na lang kayo, mga hayup kayo! Matatalino at marunong ng logic ang mga writers/commenters dito pero hindi kakagatin ng mga tao (the real makers of history) ang mga ideya n’yo kasi nga ang yabang nang dating n’yo, mga tarantado. Pero sige ituloy n’yo lang!
So makukuntento ka lang na yung mga ‘real makers of history’ ng Pilipinas ay itutuloy ang kanilang landas pababa at yung mga ugaling pang-tambay? Wahaha! Kaya pala hindi natututo ang mga Pilipino eh, kinakagat lang ang mga ideya ng mga iilang tao na nagbabalat-kayo lang na hindi mayayabang, kahit mali.
😐
its really really very very funny in a major major way:
1. those who insist that they are just being “constructive” are thousands of miles away from the country they abandoned, and accomplish nothing more than verbalizing their “constructive criticism”
2. those who call themselves as just being positive are the ones who are physically within the country of their birth, and are doing more than simply verbalizing their “positive outlook”
and yet, between the “constructivists” and the “positivists,” the “constructivists” see themselves as the real and only savior of the country they abandoned!
i have yet to see a country which developed or solved its problems thru the efforts of non-resident “constructivists”!!!!
to my dear ex-kababayans in antipinoy.com – way to go!!!!!!!
tell that to Jose Rizal while he was in Spain.
while you are at it – include the entire cast of La Solidaridad in Europe…
😆
“…itutuloy ang kanilang landas pababa”
hmmm, panahon pa ni Marcos, yan na ang bukang bibig ng mga atat na atat mag-migrate sa pinakamamahal na Estados Unidos ng antipinoy.com
(ngayon nadagdagan na ng choices – meron nang Australia, Canada, New Zealand)
Sila maunlad… tayo naiiwan… kaynino dapat ka humingi ng payo? Sa umuunlad o sa lagpak?
Social development or industrial development? Which one should come first?
basta outside pinas/pinoy culture eh masama na? OA naman.
@chino, ba
ooops. Naputol.
*bakit parang protectionist din yung attitude ng iba nating kababayan? Hahaha.